What Wine Communicators Don’t Tell You, The Reality Of The Wine Business, The One Thing Asian Winemakers Need But Can’t Control, And Where’s Next For The World’s Premier Members Only Wine Club; Richard Gives Us The Barefaced Truth And Five Wines That Capture The 67 Pall Mall Essence And His Own Story

 

 

[88 Bamboo] Hi Richard! Thank you so much for sitting down with us on this occasion of 67 Pall Mall’s 10^th Anniversary (link to view anniversary video on Pall Mall TV), the premier private members’ wine club that boasts locations (and décor both inside and out!) in some of the most scenic cities of the world, starting from the inaugural clubhouse in London (UK), to today Verbier (Switzerland), Beaune and Bordeaux (France), Hong Kong (a Resident membership), Melbourne (Australia), Shanghai (China), and of course, Singapore!

Each location is gorgeously furnished, regularly hosts an array of masterclasses on some of the world’s most sought after producers, and of course, the unbeatable several 5,000 bottle wine list (with 1,000 offered by the glass), fully serviced by a dedicated team of sommeliers and hospitality staff. 67 Pall Mall has therefore established itself as the ultimate wine club globally.

Yet, this year (2025) is also a special year for you – it’s also the 10^th anniversary from when you received your Master of Wine confirmation! The Master of Wine, being the ultimate peak of any wine expert’s academic and commercial qualifications is notoriously rigorous, with just slightly over 400 recipients worldwide. This is however, just one of your many accolades – you also continue to serve as a regular contributor to Jancis Robinson’s editorial, inaugurated the 67 Pall Mall Wine Communicator’s Award, and are of course currently the Head of Wine for APAC at 67 Pall Mall. The list goes on! And to think this all started with a degree in English Literature and Theatre Studies, a brief stint in comedy, after which you had found your way into the wine world via Majestic Wines, the UK wine retailer. It’s been a long journey for you (not to mention the arduous heat stricken 2008 vintage you worked in Australia), and there’s obviously so much more to come as you continue to add to the depth and tapestry of the wine world!

 

67 Pall Mall's founder and CEO Grant Ashton.

 

Today, we’re going to find out more about 67 Pall Mall’s continued venture in establishing an ever greater presence in the global wine world, as well as dig in alittle more about your own journey too, as not only an illustrious member of the wine world, but as the person who has helped shaped 67 Pall Mall in many ways, having been with the Singapore club since its very beginnings in 2022!

 

"I think one of the most important things to remember is what our fundamental business is, and that is getting people together to enjoy fine wine. That is very simple. The slogan of the club is by wine lovers for wine lovers, and so long as we remember that, we should be okay."

– Richard Hemming MW

In 2015, after an illustrious career in Finance, Grant Ashton, 67 Pall Mall’s founder and CEO, had decided to dive right into creating a wine destination that he would himself have loved. Being a wine lover, he’s talked of how he often found great wine lists inaccessible with high mark-ups all around London, and thus wanted a place where the wine lists was as extensive as it got, and stayed reasonable. What was supposed to be a wine restaurant in Marylebone, eventually shifted to a rejected planning application for one in St James, and finally became 67 Pall Mall of London, a wine centered members’ club.

By 2022, 67 Pall Mall would open its third outpost (after its second in Verbier, following the opening of the inaugural London club) in the heart of Singapore’s Orchard Road shopping district, taking the penthouse floor at the historic Shaw Centre building. And it’s at this juncture that your story and that of 67 Pall Mall’s becomes intertwined – you had moved over to Singapore in 2018/2019 just as the Club was planning its Singapore launch, and what started out as an innocent conversation about doing content work for the Club eventually became a full time hand in helping to expand the Club’s presence in Asia.

 

67 Pall Mall's Singapore club.

 

[88 Bamboo] Being one of the very few that’s seen the Club grow from a working concept to a full-fledged destination of choice with over 3,000 members, we’re curious as to whether the Club today resembles what you might have initially visualized it to be? And were there any far out ideas that were tossed around but never made it to fruition? 

[Richard Hemming MW] The short answer is yes - basically entirely what we created and what you see is exactly what we intended! And of course, it's based on the London Club. I already knew the London Club, so knew what to expect for a lot of people when they first saw this place as an empty shell and they couldn't quite picture what the finished result would be, but I was pretty familiar with it.

When we were first developing the club we did have some ideas that did not make it into fruition - for example, we were looking at maybe turning the outside terrace on Level 27 into an outdoor dining area, but we would have had to have this fire escape staircase which would have cut into the main room, so we could have done it, but the compromise to that main room would have been too damaging and that's a good reflection of how Grant thinks because he has this single minded pursuit of quality and he knows exactly how he wants things to be. One of the early discussions 10 years ago back in the London Club was also about how the wine would be served. There were discussions about measuring the wine out with old fashioned scale, so rather than doing like millilitres, you would buy a little weight and they would kind of measure it out for you. It was sort of cute but in the end totally impractical.

But overall, I think the thing that makes 67 Pall Mall strong is that the core proposition has never changed. And in Singapore, in London, and now increasingly with Melbourne, Shanghai and the other clubs coming, you've got the same core proposition, which is the wine list, the glassware, the events, the food, the community. 

 

67 Pall Mall’s Wine & The Food of Asia, authored by Richard Hemming MW.

  

[88 Bamboo] To that end, in the early days, what had you hoped you could do for the Club and what more would you like to see the Club continue to grow towards or achieve? To your personal opinion, was there a particular milestone that the Club struck where you felt satisfied with what you’ve overseen here, and what’s the next grail?

[Richard Hemming MW] A personal milestone in my career here was the publication of the book last year (67 Pall Mall’s Wine & The Food of Asia, authored by Richard himself) and that was two years in the making and was definitely not what I had envisaged when I started working here. I knew they [67 Pall Mall] had published books already, but I didn't realise that there was a plan for me to do something, and I'd never written really on wine or food matching much at all. And then now to write an entire book, especially on a subject where I'm not an expert of because it was about Asian food, and so I had to learn a lot about the ingredients and cooking styles [of Asia], and then of course doing the actual food and wine matching itself. 

That was a real milestone for me because I had this tangible thing and then what's so great about it is that you can do events where you match the specific ideas from the book with the dishes, and then you have a room full of people trying them and they don't all have to agree, which is fine, but it's getting that conversation going; that engagement with wine that is one of the things that is so rewarding. [And here] you get to do that with the members at the beginning.

 

Richard taking club members through a grand Super Tuscan tasting.

 

When I started out here (67 Pall Mall Singapore) six years ago, it was provisional, I was just helping out a few days a week, and I'd never worked in hospitality before - I had never worked on the floor in my life - so I still didn’t have that first hand experience, and I wasn't sure exactly what I could do. But what I knew was I love the Club. I'd been a member since the beginning in London, and I love hosting events and seeing people discover wines and also helping our staff whether it's training sessions or supporting them through WSET qualifications and so on. I knew that I could help encourage the quality of wine appreciation both for our members and our staff. And that's really what I had in mind, I think that was all nothing specific, but really that’s what I thought I could do something for here. 

 

"I think the first thing that a lot of people don't realise is just how many staff it takes to run this place. There's a lot of people and if you don't have the right people in place, the rest of it you can forget."

 

[88 Bamboo] Over the past decade, 67 Pall Mall as a group has made many strides in numerous facets from within and beyond its Club walls. 

A hallmark of the Club at its various outposts is the Tour de Vin wine display that comes in the form of a visually stunning Wine Tower or a specially designed aluminium pearl bed display where bottles can be chilled whilst protecting the bottles’ labels – all geared for optimal functionality whilst maximizing aesthetic appeal. 

The Club regularly hosts an enviable calendar of masterclasses ranging from a Krug Grande Cuvee vertical with the Champagne houses’ President to a deeper dive into St Morey Denis conducted by Burgundy expert Jasper Morris MW – more recently the Club has shone a greater light into newer worlds of wine with a Chinese wine treasure hunt all the way to the likes of Pet Nat Riesling cult favourite Balthasar Ress. Wine lovers can also take WSET classes at the Club, and this is all on top of tapping into the world’s largest wine selection of 5,000 – 6,000 bottles (and a 1,000 by the glass with the likes of Bordeaux First Growths), guided as well by an incredibly roster of top sommeliers. 

 

67 Pall Mall has spared little expense in delivering an absolute wine lover's paradise - from top notch facilities, glassware and wine lists, to some of the best sommelier and cellar teams, monthly masterclasses helmed by renowned experts, and food designed to pair perfectly with the occasional guest chefs. Pictured: Richard Hemming MW with British wine expert and presenter Olly Smith (center-left); Shirley Tan, Head Sommelier for 67 Pall Mall Singapore; Burgundy expert Jasper Morris MW of InsideBurgundy.com taking members through Morey-Saint-Denis appellation, who we also interviewed here.

 

[88 Bamboo] It's clear that no expense is spared in fully making sure the Club realises every detail of what a wine lover would and could ever dream of having and it is obviously a gargantuan effort for the Club to achieve. We’ve for instance heard that to ensure proper glasses were used across the clubs, 67 Pall Mall had once ordered 12,000 handblown Zalto glasses, forcing the factory to stop taking orders for months just to complete your order!

What does it take to run the operations of the world’s premier wine club? 

[Richard Hemming MW] Well, I think the first thing that a lot of people don't realise is just how many staff it takes to run this place - we have 130 plus staff just working for the Singapore Club and 20 of those are in the Sommelier team. There's a lot of people and if you don't have the right people in place, you can forget about the rest of it. You need to have not just people with the right wine knowledge, but people with the right experience and also people with the right attitude so that they make members feel welcome and so on. I think people don't realise how much of a resource that is. 

You mentioned Zalto - we have I think 20,000 different glasses here! The logistics involved with that, we've had to design our own trays that hold the glasses so that we can move them around whist minimising breakages, and also so that it can be cleaned and polished efficiently. In the bar back area where we have the washing facilities we have stacks and stacks of these boxes. They're all printed with the wine glass type on the side. We also have storage facilities out in Changi (east of Singapore where the country’s national airport is located with surrounding logistics facilities), and we're moving wine glasses back and forth on a weekly basis. We also have to support external events. So if, for example, we do a summer party off site, we're sending 5,000 glasses to those places, all of which needs to be managed. Just handling glassware alone, as just one example, is itself a really big operation. 

 

 

"It's like a 20 step process to get a bottle of wine in front of people. So the fact that you hopefully don't notice all of that sort of action going on is exactly the point."

 

And a lot of people don't realise the [work of the] Cellar team, because they're very invisible to the members. When the Cellar team is doing their job, you don't know they exist! We have a Cellar team that brings up about half of the wine that is sold on the floor which comes from our Level Two cellar. We have the wine tower, of course, but we can't fit enough wine in there even though that itself holds two and a half thousand bottles of Red. And then consider all of the White’s, Sparkling, Large Format’s, Fortified’s, and everything else that we need. So we have a huge storage facility on Level Two. 

When you're ordering a wine on the iPad [Editor’s note: 67 Pall Mall’s full wine list is so extensive it’s offered to members on an iPad with search capabilities] or you're speaking to the Sommelier, very often, there is this whole chain of events where an order gets triggered, which then gets sent remotely to our Cellar team. They get told the location of the bottle in the cellar, they then go and find it, scan it to indicate that it's being moved. It gets sent up in the lifts, gets hand carried up, brought to the wine tower, scanned again, put into the point of sale system, presented to the member, and then finally it gets opened and poured. It's like a 20 step process to get a bottle of wine in front of people. And this all happens - when it's working well - in five minutes, and to make that happen with the right glassware, the right surface temperature, not to mention whether or not you need to decant, checking the quality as well, of course. And we're doing this hundreds of times a day, and obviously on busy days!

So the fact that you hopefully don't notice all of that sort of action going on is exactly the point. 

 

Richard's earliest forays in wine communication kicked off with writing for JancisRobinson.com and today helms the 67 Pall Mall Wine Communication Awards.

 

[88 Bamboo] And on your end Richard, you too have made great strides through your journey in wine – and yet one element remains resolutely consistent, that for you it’s all about how wines are communicated. From your earliest work being a wine writer, which you’ve now done for close to 20 years earning you numerous accolades, to your Master of Wine dissertation studying how consumer wine books have changed in the UK over the past 100 years, and then more recently inaugurating the 67 Pall Mall Wine Communication Awards that so innovatively includes new media formats like short form Instagram reels and longer form Youtube videos (also podcasts!), as well as authoring the Club’s new Wine & The Food of Asia book.

What is it about communication that resonates so deeply within you, and what do you believe it holds in shaping the world of wines?

Through your experiences in wine communication, what’s a trend we should keep a greater look out for, and what’s perhaps the most striking or unique way you’ve seen wines be communicated? What formats are you most curious about, and would love to see take off? 

[Richard Hemming MW] Wine communication has always been an important part of my career - I started out in retail when I was working in a wine shop in London, and so I used to write about wine just for my own benefit. I didn't even publish on a blog or anything; this was pre-social media so there was nowhere really for it to go. I just wrote it and then I saved the file on my desktop and that was it. But I entered a competition which was for young wine writers, and that's how I ended up moving up into that world. And I think most people that communicate about wine would say the same thing, that they just feel like they have compulsion to share what they love about this particular wine or that region or this winemaker.

 

 

"One of the finalists for the 67 Pall Mall awards was a nine second video! Which is amazing because they managed to put across something useful, entertaining, interesting, relevant, all in nine seconds!"

 

And because it is an incredibly complex product, it's very hard to explain it clearly. It requires real skill! If you're talking to a mass audience, you have to make sure that you're using accessible language, and that you're talking about wines that are available and that's not too expensive. Whereas at 67 Pall Mall, you’re doing this at a very high level of expected standard. You want to be sure that you understand the details of everything. You have to have absolutely correct information about all of the wines, and to explain why they cost so much, why they matter, or why they taste like this. Being able to translate that information and make it understood is really something satisfying. And [to achieve that] I always had writing as my primary form because again, when I was doing it 25 years ago, video wasn't really a thing online. You could go and buy the [multi-media format] equipment, but it wasn't easy to do it. 

And now with the 67 Pall Mall Wine Communicator Awards, what's so interesting to me is seeing how communicators are using things like TikTok and Instagram to create very quick, very impactful videos. One of the finalists for the 67 Pall Mall awards was a nine second video! Which is amazing because they managed to put across something useful, entertaining, interesting, relevant, all in nine seconds! And that's like writing, say, a tweet. It's really hard to do that and make it worthwhile and to give it value. That's something I don't do really.

 

 

I find that fascinating because it's a completely different skill set and it also connects with a different kind of audience, usually a younger audience, but also an audience where grabbing their attention is really vital. You have to use whatever techniques you can to grab people's attention very quickly. And that's very different to writing where normally people opt into writing, they go specifically to somewhere to read something, whereas on Instagram you're scrolling so you need to pop out. And so that I find really fascinating. And so observing from the 67 Pall Mall awards [Editor’s Note: As the host, Richard doesn’t judge entries himself, which is instead judged by a panel of expert guests], the entries has really shown me how great some of these people are at doing that. 

 

[88 Bamboo] Whilst different stakeholders may believe different aspects of wines are the most crucial to know about, for you, what do you believe is the most important thing wine communication must convey, communicate, and achieve?

[Richard Hemming MW] It boils down to one thing: understanding your audience. You have to segment your audience and deliver the appropriate level of knowledge. For example, if you are already talking about Burgundy, there's a very high chance that your audience is going to be engaged; they're going to understand these wines. They'll probably even spend quite a lot of money on these wines. And so you have to talk to them appropriately and deliver elite level knowledge - there's no good saying, “Here's an introduction to Chablis,” that's not appropriate. So you have to understand your audience. 

Once you understand your audience, then you have the choice of whether you're going to write in a formal way, whether you're going to do, say, a big long report, or if it’s going to be more bite sized, whether in video, or audio, and so forth. But all of that is very subjective, it can work for some people, but not for others, which is another matter altogether, but if you don't know your audience in the first place, you can't make that decision. 

 

Staff training at 67 Pall Mall for a Lafon Rochet wine dinner.

 

"...wine is ultimately a business - that's what a lot of people don't understand. How is the en primeur system going to survive? There's no money in it. It is really one of the most serious potential problems that the industry is facing, and everyone knows it. [And] I don't think there's enough scrutiny and honesty about what we can actually do, and it's because people are too interested in focusing on the, say, fine wine end, or the lifestyle end."

 

[88 Bamboo] As someone who has spanned the breadth of the wine world, from wine retail to wine writing and judging, and even working a vintage yourself, and then now being responsible for helming the world’s premier wine club and thoughtfully putting together it’s 5,000 bottle wine list, you’ve seen many sides of the coin.

We’re curious about what wine retailers don’t see about wine writers, what wine writers don’t see about the winemakers, and what drinkers don’t see at all.

Tell us about the gaps and how do we close that gap? And, as an industry veteran, could you share with us what’s a little secret about the wine communication world that people outside the industry don’t know about?

[Richard Hemming MW] Before we get to the wine retailers, writers and producers, let’s talk first about what do people not see. There is a huge part of the wine industry which doesn't really get spoken about, doesn't really get visited, and yet accounts for something like 80% of the volume of all wines, which is what’s sold at a large bulk level. There's in fact a wine fair called the bulk wine fair - I've never been; hardly anyone has ever been. And yet this is where a lot of the business in wine is done! We're all obsessed with these wines where you have [an incredibly small outturn] 5,000 bottles a year and they're selling for something like $10,000 per bottle, and they're very sought after. Sure, that's important of course to the wine world, but wine is ultimately a business - that's what a lot of people don't understand.

 

 

You've got to look at what is actually sustaining this industry. How is the en primeur system going to survive? [Editor’s Note: High profile Bordeaux wineries use the en primeur system to book purchases for wines whilst still in barrel, often at least a year before they are ready to be delivered in bottles.] 

There's no money in it. Everything is propped up on bank loans. It is really one of the most serious potential problems that the industry is facing, and everyone knows it. People are starting to talk about it a little bit, but there still isn't that [necessary] engagement. I don't think there's enough scrutiny and honesty about what we can actually do, and it's because people are too interested in focusing on the, say, fine wine end, or the lifestyle end. 

A lot of wine communicators, they get taken on really nice trips, they get taken to dinners; for producers that have big marketing budgets, they'll send bottles [to wine communicators] and that's okay, but another part of it is, how are everyday producers who are trying to get their wines into a national grocery chain actually going to make money? Are they even making money? Do they deserve to make money? And maybe they don’t. But in a wine world where consumption is declining massively, the question is who is going to go out of business? Because someone has to go out of business. Understanding the reality of the wine world, now that's something that a lot of people don't connect to - and it's important, and I think people should take it much more seriously. And of course there are some writers and communicators that do that and they're great. And often you see these discussions on LinkedIn - which is actually a good place to go and talk, and where people are talking about the business side of things. 

 

Wine communication takes on a starkly different face on social media.

 

You also asked about what would people not understand about wine communication. Well, the way that the industry is structured these days is that most wine communicators can't make money from being a journalist or being an influencer. What they make money from is partnerships, sponsorships, which again is fine so long as everybody is aware, and so long as people can see that this is a piece of sponsored content. Now, 20 years ago, when I was doing this [writing on wines] just starting out, it was really the opposite. If you took a sponsorship, people would be very critical, they would really question your credibility. Now it's the reverse.

Now we just assume that people that are promoting things are doing some kind of commercial relationship. Especially if you look at how it happens in China, where so much of the promotional content is on WeChat or Little Red Book (Xiaohongshu), most of those relationships are very commercial. These communicators are entering into a partnership with a producer or an importer, and so they're promoting the wine when they're talking about it. And that a completely different world to the one that was only just 20 years ago. 

 

"If you look at how it works now, there really is no advertising money - the biggest Internet companies take all of the advertising money today."

 

[88 Bamboo] That's fascinating you brought this up because the contrast is stark compared to several years ago – our attitudes towards journalistic independence. That's always been something that's on people's minds when an influencer speaks about a certain product. What would you attribute this change in attitude to?

[Richard Hemming MW] Well, it's simply the reality of the Internet and how the economic model works. There is now no money in traditional advertising. Take Decanter magazine [Editor’s Note: Decanter is one of the most popular and well-read dedicated wine enthusiast’s magazines] for example, Decanter has always struggled to make decent money from its print magazine. But it makes good money from its awards, and also it sells adverts to producers for the magazine. The producers enter the awards, and they pay money to enter the awards. So it's this ecosystem, and it works! And it allows the journalists writing for Decanter to be independent effectively. Sure, they're taking some money from producers, but they're not taking money in exchange for specific content. These journalists still have the ability to review these wines independently. That's one model that's sort of surviving. If you look at how it works now, there really is no advertising money - the biggest Internet companies take all of the advertising money today.

 

Awards remain a last refuge for financially viable and sustainable journalistic independence.

 

If you're on a social media platform and you want to promote something or earn an income from wine communication, you have to go direct to these producers and make some kind of personal arrangement. I did a podcast years back, independent from 67 Pall Mall and JancisRobinson.com, and we sold sponsorship to either retailers or producers or brands. And we said up front that this is sponsored by this brand, and we're proud to bring you [this podcast episode] in association with that brand. And that allows the brand to reach a specific audience. The audience is very clear that this has been brought to you by a brand that’s in association with the podcast. And that's just the way it's going now.

  

[88 Bamboo] As the club looks to continue its expansion going into its second decade, with the very accessibly located Melbourne club due to open in late 2025, and the gorgeously historic Shanghai club slated for 2026, it appears that much of that push has been in the Eastern Hemisphere of Asia and Oceania. This of course comes on the back of the Club already having an outpost in the heart of traditionally sacred wine regions of Bordeaux and Beaune.

What is 67 Pall Mall's grand vision with its global expansion, and more granularly how it decide the country, city and specific location of where to set up base? 

[Richard Hemming MW] The quick answer to that is 10 clubs in 10 years. That's what Grant [the founder and CEO of 67 Pall Mall] has in mind. And, as you know, some of the locations have been announced already. These locations have come up because they fulfil one of two criteria. The first is that they're a big urban centre with a sophisticated population that spends money on wine - Melbourne, Singapore, Shanghai, for example - or they are a tactical location where it will be a smaller club, which probably won't generate so much revenue, but it's in a really great location like Bordeaux and Beaune. With those clubs, it puts us right in the heart of the wine regions and it also allows us to make great partnerships with local producers. So it gives us a connection to the wineries, and it allows our members to visit these places, have a home away from home, and get a kind of 67 Pall Mall experience within say Bordeaux. 

 

67 Pall Mall recently announced the launch of its new Shanghai club.

 

Future cities will follow the same guidelines. Right now, where would we love to open? Tokyo, Bangkok, Seoul, Taipei, Shenzhen there's quite a lot of candidates - big global cities particularly in Asia. Now that the company is headquartered here, Grant is also based here in Singapore, and we have a good reputation here in Asia. People know about the brand now in this part of the world. And with Hong Kong and Shanghai coming, that gives us a bit of an advantage, there's a greater opportunity probably in this part of the world. We'll still look at European locations, but the focus is definitely Asia. 

 

"The thing that Asian wine producers probably need the most is the one thing that they can't control - time. We don't need new techniques, we don't need new vines, we don't need new oak - we don't need anything like that. We all know how to make great wine. Proving it is what takes time, and that might even be generations before that happens."

 

[88 Bamboo] And then again over to your side of the story, being situated in Asia has allowed you to be proximally closer to this burgeoning region’s wine producers which now span beyond the pioneers of China’s Ningxia region and Japan’s Yamanashi Prefecture. Having watched the Asia wine story up close – again from multiple angles, from producers to venues and consumers – there is of course much said about how Asia has grown in sophistication and is gradually levelling up.

What do you believe is the most crucial element that Asia needs for it to get up to the next level, and what are some existential questions wine producers, venues, consumers need to first address before we head in the right direction? 

[Richard Hemming MW] The thing that Asian wine producers probably need the most is the one thing that they can't control - time. Because time will give them three things. The first is older vines, which will help everyone understand what the terroir is like, and what the quality is like. The second is age in bottle - until you can prove that your wines age well after 10+ years, 20 years even, they won't be taken seriously as competitors to the great fine wines of the world. And then thirdly, this whole thing takes so long! It takes so much time to establish yourself in a market. You have to sell every vintage every year by visiting the markets, by opening the bottles, by tasting with the sommeliers, the customers, the importers. So it all takes time.

 

China's Ningxia Province has made big moves in showing that it too can make wines, yet it still remains but a challenger to critics and palates.

  

There's no point in saying, “If only they had a bit of more money!” People have tons of money. There's no shortage of money with these wine producers. They're not making money, but they are investing money. So they have the money, they’ve found the regions, they have access to the vines. We don't need new techniques, we don't need new vines, we don't need new oak - we don't need anything like that. We all know how to make great wine. Proving it is what takes time, and that might even be generations before that happens. So patience is what is required. 

 

[88 Bamboo] To that end, where do you see the next big thing in Asia’s wine scene coming from? 

[Richard Hemming MW] It's actually a really boring answer, which is, have you got a business plan? I don't care what region particularly or even what variety. The question to ask is have they got a business plan? And if they've got a business plan, that has to be a 10 year strategy for which markets they're going to, what they're going to be making, what kind of volumes, how they'll distribute, what their pricing is, will they be able to support it with marketing, or say with tourism. Then I'm interested. But so many producers start the other way around and they're like, “Oh, we found this amazing parcel of land and we just couldn’t resist it”, and unfortunately, that is just not a good business.

Now it might even make an excellent wine, but again, so many people don't think about the business side of this. Everybody's worried about the current food and beverage scene now and in fact, hospitality in general, because places are closing down, there's less money going around, consumption is falling, and there's uncertainty globally. All of these things are making it very hard to predict what's going to happen next. Simply saying, well, I found the perfect place to grow a Chardonnay that's going to compete with Burgundy, I'm afraid, is not a good idea. Showing me the spreadsheet that gives the forecast for how you're going to make this wine, what the cost is going to be, how it's going to be distributed and sold and marketed, that could be a good idea. So that's how I would start. 

 

Don't show Richard your vines, show him your business plan on Excel.

 

"I don't care what region particularly or even what variety. The question to ask is have they got a business plan? Simply saying, well, I found the perfect place to grow a Chardonnay that's going to compete with Burgundy, I'm afraid, is not a good idea. [But] showing me the spreadsheet... that could be a good idea."

 

[88 Bamboo] We appreciate the brutal honesty in that. That's something we don't often hear.

[Richard Hemming MW] Well, it's because people get so swept away with a romance of wine. And, you know, especially if people are investing in [making wine] and they've made their money somewhere else. This very often happens - they've made a good amount of money in a different industry and they want to invest in wine because they love wine and they want to support the industry and they like the lifestyle of it, and that's great, and I really admire their enthusiasm, but is it what the industry really needs right now? 

You can compare it with the movie industry. The movie industry is on its knees; cinema receipts are down, and most people agree that what's being put out is just sequels, prequels, and all these derivative stuff that is just not interesting anymore. But you also don't want someone coming in and saying, well, I just want to make a movie about my favourite thing. No, you want someone to come in and say this is the strategy for getting people into cinemas and watching movies. We don't need your vanity-project-movie-thing that you're thinking about. We need a business plan. And the wine industry has the same challenge. 

 

Jancis Robinson OBE MW, for whom Richard has served for over a decade as a wine writer, remains a highly influential wine critic. Pictured: Jancis Robinson takes 67 Pall Mall's members on an incredible wine retrospective (so far).

   

[88 Bamboo] So what does wine communication in Asia and Oceania need to be – because we know what works in the West may not necessarily work here? And how does 67 Pall Mall hope to play a role in moving Asia and Oceania along? 

[Richard Hemming MW] It's a good question. I don't think there's a simple answer, because the traditions of wine communication will probably apply regardless of any market. Scores and tasting notes, they still count for a lot, whether they're people who are using Vivino or James Suckling or JancisRobinson.com or anything else. This basic idea of writing a tasting note with a score is still one of the best ways to convey what a wine is like. Now it's definitely not perfect, but it works for a lot of people. And the kind of people that want to start getting interested in wine, they need tasting notes. So those will continue, I think. And having databases where you can search and maybe do label recognition on a phone app, that's all part of it. And it's happening now and it's continuing to improve.

It'll certainly be interesting to see how it works within the ecosystem of China, for example, when people are just within a single app, in this case WeChat. Usually WeChat has got almost everything you need for your daily life as well as lots of communication and information. So making it work in that context is going to be quite something. Again I don't know the answer to it, but obviously it's something 67 Pall Mall is working on now because we're in Shanghai, so we're already engaging with people on WeChat. So it'll be interesting to see how that plays out. 

 

Richard with Grant, as they continue to expand the 67 Pall Mall footprint and endeavour to keep the club a wine lover's paradise.

 

What can 67 Pall Mall do - and this is actually related to a question you asked earlier about how will the club evolve - I think one of the most important things to remember is what our fundamental business is, and that is getting people together to enjoy fine wine. That is very simple.

Executing it well is very hard and requires a lot of investment and training and loads of other things. But if you don't continue to protect and celebrate that. Ultimately the reason we're all here is because people love to open a bottle of wine and share it with their friends, and then you can forget the rest. We do lots of other cool stuff, for example with whisky, we do stuff with travel, we've even got merchandise, and we also host parties - we do all of that cool stuff and wine will always play a part in that. But you can't do that and forget about what really matters. The slogan of the club is by wine lovers for wine lovers, and so long as we remember that, we should be okay. 

 

[88 Bamboo] Over the years, 67 Pall Mall has also racked up a formidable reputation for its great food that’s served at the Club, and more recently has even amped things up beyond wines, with its own Club bottled whiskies (we’re talking well-aged all time great distilleries like Springbank, Ben Nevis, Ardbeg, Bruichladdich and Macallan) and also specially designed cocktails that are Hong Kong cinema themed.

What else can members look forward to at the Club, and in what new directions does 67 Pall Mall hope to expand the Club’s offerings?

[Richard Hemming MW] One of the things we're introducing later this year is our own English sparkling wine, which is a 10th anniversary special bottling from a really great producer in the UK who did some blending trials together with the 67 Pall Mall London team. They had a kind of competition internally to make different blends, and then I think there were three or maybe four final choices, and then chose which their favourite was and then they sent the bottles to us. Finally we chose and we all agreed on this one particular cuvee. So that's just something we did to recognise the 10th Anniversary of the club, and I think there will continue to be such projects.

 

67 Pall Mall has even bottled its own whiskies. We've gotten a chance to review them here.

  

That said I don't think 67 Pall Mall will ever make a wine from scratch. That's not what we're here to do. We are here to taste and enjoy other people's wines! With whisky, it's a bit different because you buy it in cask. And we do sometimes buy wine from the Hospice de Beaune auction. So we have got some Burgundies, only a few hundred bottles really, so not very much. There will continue to be these individual projects wherever we see an opportunity to do something fun, but it's not really going to become like a big new direction, I don't think.

 

"But I think the bigger question about this in terms of how wine is marketed, really should be about the convention of a 750 millilitres glass bottle, and whether it’s the correct vessel. Rethinking about the whole packaging. How would that work? What would it be? What's the right market? The question is, how can you change those habits at a mass market level? And it did happen actually - it happened with the screw cap! You know, in the 80’s, nobody thought that screw caps were feasible. And now, you have New Zealand, Australia, Chile, and a lot of places that use it by default."

 

If you don't have wine, you can also offer Richard some solid beers!

 

[88 Bamboo] Now, we also know that you’re a big fan of beers and ciders – and although you’ve mentioned that you’re by no means an expert on them and you simply enjoy the drink. 
 
Craft beer utilises its name and the beer can/bottle’s label as a canvas for grabbing attention with labels that range from aesthetic to comedic, or even mysterious. Would you say it’s a form of communication that the wine category can borrow a page from in better resonating with fans?

[Richard Hemming MW] Some wine producers already do imitate that craft beer look, especially natural wine producers! They'll have bright labels, funky designs, interesting names, and there's definitely a parallel that can be drawn there. It works in that category where the wine doesn't take itself so seriously, so it's a bit more casual. And that’s even if the wine might actually be very serious, but the marketing and the atmosphere in which it's enjoyed is a bit more casual. So it does happen. 

 

A surprising success story out of the wine world.

 

Could other producers kind of take advantage of that? Probably not. I don't know. I mean, if you think about one of the most successful brands at the moment, which is 19 Crimes, they’ve got a partnership with Snoop Dogg (the rapper and pop culture icon) and then they've done sort of almost like holographic labels, very distinctive, really eye catching. They still look like wine, they don't look like they're trying to be beer or anything else. So I think some people can do it and do do it. 

But I think the bigger question about this in terms of how wine is marketed, really should be about the convention of a 750 millilitres glass bottle, and whether it’s the correct vessel. I think everybody that looks at it from an objective viewpoint would probably say, no, it is not. It's expensive, it's heavy, it breaks; it's often too much for two people or not enough for more people. But it is absolutely ingrained in wine and I don't think it'll ever change soon. There are alternative formats now: cans, bag in a box, and they're getting better all the time. So really the question is is there a way of finding a packaging alternative rather than just a label on a bottle? Rethinking about the whole packaging. How would that work? What would it be? What's the right market? I don't know the answer to these questions, it's very tough to know. But those conversations are starting now. 

 

Once unthinkable, today a staple. (Image Source: Wine Anorak)

  

[88 Bamboo] Given that it’s technical feasibility and operational efficiencies, winemakers could absolutely package their wines in a different format or vessel. Yet what sort of finesse would it need for it to convince the consumer that it’s going to be something worth their time?

[Richard Hemming MW] Oh yeah, you definitely have to segment the market for fine wine. It really doesn't matter about the bottle. I think that is now established and also because of the way that wine matures in bottle and with the closure and everything, just the sheer logistical setup of the wine world is all geared towards those bottles. So I think at that end, it won't make a difference. The question is, how can you change those habits at a mass market level? And it did happen actually - it happened with the screw cap! You know, in the 80’s, nobody thought that screw caps were feasible. And now, you have New Zealand, Australia, Chile, and a lot of places that use it by default. Even a lot of French producers use it these days; there are Chablis producers that are bottling under screw cap for certain markets and they have been doing it now for years.

So it can happen. And it might not seem like much to us now, but I remember at the time, the screw cap debate was very serious and there were a lot of people getting very upset about the pros and the cons. So is there something that could do the same for alternative packaging? Not yet that I've seen. There's no solution where you think, okay, it's going to be this. It's going to take a while, but it probably will be this. I don't think we've seen that yet, but we're definitely expanding the horizons, possibilities. 

 

 

[88 Bamboo] If you could curate a selection of 5 wines that embody or capture the 67 Pall Mall story or essence, what would it be? 

[Richard Hemming MW] Well, whenever you get opportunities like this, it's a really good opportunity to champion the kind of wines that often get overlooked. The first one I'll go for is actually a fortified wine, probably a Port. Although you could also pick an Australian Rutherglen, because those wines are such good value; they are exactly the kind of wine that our members appreciate because they have a sort of style and flavour and complexity that you really can't imitate from other wines, plus they age almost indefinitely, so you can find old vintages very easily. We really love serving 1967 vintages of fortified wines here because they're always good value. So a fortified wine I think is a good one. 

 

 

Then you have to have a Champagne, of course, and I do think for that matter that it does have to be Champagne. I love English [Sparkling] wine, I love great Cava and Franciacorta and everything else, but there is still something about Champagne which at its best represents the peak of Sparkling Wine. Everyone of course has their own favourites — mine would probably be Sir Winston Churchill by Pol Roger. For the club we've served a whole lot of Charles Heidsieck in our time. Charles Heidsieck Non-Vintage is just such a crowd pleasing classic Champagne that's probably better for the club from that point of view. 

And then you would want to also have one of our bestsellers. And in Singapore - actually I was just looking at this, I was looking at our 250 top best selling wines since we opened, because we did some analysis on this - and frequently it's an Amarone, and that style, which is not so popular in the UK, has definitely found resonance here. I think it's such pure pleasure in those wines. When you get good Amarone, it’s hedonistic, it’s this high alcohol, ripe fruit, super complex and yet also represents a very particular type of wine making. So I think we could put an Amarone in there. It would be between Quintarelli and Dal Forno wouldn't it, if you were going to go with the classics. And I love them both, but let's say Dal Forno. 

We've got three so far, so we need two more for a white wine. Okay, I'll choose a Riesling - and there's a specific reason why. In the wine world we all say Riesling is going to be the next big thing; Riesling is so versatile, Riesling is so wonderful, but actually for most people who are drinking wines, they're not choosing Riesling. We actually sell way more Chardonnay and Sauvignon Blanc than we do Riesling, and this is considering that we're in a place where people understand wine. So I'll put a Riesling in there. And to pick a wine that's representative for the club, let's go for a classic Alsace Riesling actually, maybe Trimbach because those are some of the most historic producers in the world. Alsace producers go back a thousand years in the same family and they've been making the same wine for the same way, the same year across all the centuries. And so it's a real link to the past and it's such a versatile wine, and one that people can still discover. It's good for 67 Pall Mall’s members to still understand those wines. 

 

 

For the last one, we've had a fortified wine, so we should definitely have a sweet wine. And I think we can play it quite safe and just go for d’Yquem, because the nice thing about d’Yquem is that it is the quintessential Sauterne. It is a fantastic brand - it's pure, beautifully marketed, it's beautifully made; we've done lots of events with them. We've tasted and we've got tons of old vintages on the list and they last forever. Uniquely, I think everybody agrees that they are the category leader. And that's quite unusual for wine. Like what is the best red Burgundy? Some people say Domaine de la Romanee-Conti, some will say Rousseau, whilst others will say Henri Jayer. What's the best Bordeaux? Impossible to decide! Now what's the best Sauterne? And again, really there is this sort of global consensus on that. It's quite unusual that in a category, everyone agrees, even their competitors agree that these guys, they do something special. Being able to show people that and say, look, 67 Pall Mall, we try to be the very best, we try to offer the absolute best experience, and d’Yquem does the same.

 

[88 Bamboo] You've had such a storied career in wines, but you also mention your many hobbies from playing the piano to wok cooking, spending time outdoors in nature to your penchant for cult classic novels like Grapes of Wrath. 

If you could curate a selection of 5 wines that tells the story of Richard Hemming MW, what would they be?

[Richard Hemming MW] The first one is easy because it's a wine that I have such a close connection to - an English sparkling called Gusbourne Estate. I had actually worked at Gusbourne for one year, and just one day a week I would go down and help in the vineyard, and I got to see the whole cycle of growth for one year. It was one of the most useful educational things I ever did. Now it paid terribly, really long hours, freezing cold in the winter, boiling hot in the summer, but I learned so much. I saw those vines grow before the wine was even released, and so I tasted the very first releases, and I have tasted every vintage ever since; I've served it at my wedding, and also served it at my 40th birthday. It's a wine I have such a strong connection to and I love it. I think it's superb quality, so that's easy. 

 

 

Then the other ones would have to be wines where I have a particular connection to the people, because there are so many wines I could choose from that I love as favourite wines. Crawford River Riesling from Henty in Victoria! I met the winemaker, Belinda, when we were studying for the MW together, and I later visited her place. It's one of Australia's great regions, and it's a great wine, but the fact that we are now good friends - when I go to Melbourne, I hang out with her, I stay at her place, we've drunk loads of wine together, we've visited lots of different places together, so having that kind of personal connection to a place - and so whenever I see that wine already I have this lovely experience because it makes me think of Belinda and our friendship. 

 

Crawford River's Belinda Thomson.

 

I also have to have Australian Shiraz because that's where I did a vintage in McLaren Vale. The brand I worked for there was called Kangarilla Road. Again, that was a really good learning experience, and I love their wines, they are archetypal South Australian Shiraz - big, ripe, oaked, full, hearty - it's the kind of wine I grew up on. It's the kind of wine that I learned about when I first started back in the 2000’s in the UK, and Australian wine was such good value as well.

I've got two Australians and one English, I better have something French!

I would always go for, like a curveball choice; I don't think I would ever go for something mainstream because I like discovering more, kind of unusual stories. I would have to go for the Rhone, because I've been to the Rhone a lot. Now there's an amazing producer called Domaine du Tunnel, and it just means “tunnel”, which is a reference to them maturing their wines in an old train tunnel. They had found this train tunnel, in the side of a mountain, and now they mature their wines there and they make a Cornas in St Joseph, northern Rhone. They're in fact some of the few wines that I've ever bought en primeur myself. And I don't buy a lot. I've followed them for quite a while, they're modern style, they're very fruit driven, but they're also very classic Northern Rhone. I have been there, but I don't know the guys particularly, yet it sort of represents a style that I love very much - so that can be my French.

 

Fortified Wines and Jamon masterclass at 67 Pall Mall.

 

I'm going to have to go for something sweet or fortified again. I'll go for what I think is the world's greatest large volume brand, which is Tio Pepe Sherry. I don't know how many bottles of Tio Pepe they make every year, but it is probably in the hundreds of thousands, and of course, the way that Sherry is made with the solera where it's perpetually being made. It is so cheap for what you get. Sherry is one of the most complex, powerful wines on the planet, and it's just such a shame that it's completely out of fashion. Whenever I have Tio Pepe, not only is it the absolute typical dry fino sherry, but it evokes southern Spain - tapas, seaside anchovies, olives, almonds, and that sort of relaxing lifestyle, think of a slow afternoon, sipping a glass of Sherry, having snacks. There's nothing quite like it! And I've loved Sherry not since the very beginning because it's hard to get used to, but once you get it, once you understand it, you never turn back. It's like when something clicks inside and you love it forever. 

 

"We don't need to be the club that's going to make wine appreciation cheaper or get you allocations to this or that - It's not about that. It's about delivering everything at the best possible quality level. Being consistent - if we can be consistent and bring the club to wine lovers around the world, that's the legacy."

 

 

[88 Bamboo] What is the legacy that ultimately you would like to see 67 Pall Mall achieve? And for yourself, what do you hope that through your tireless work and career in wine that you would have done for or effected in the wine story and world? Could you leave us with the best advice you’ve ever received?

[Richard Hemming MW] For 67 Pall Mall, that legacy is in establishing a first of its kind global wine membership club. Going back to what I had mentioned in the beginning, you need to really focus on that core proposition [of delivering the best possible wine enjoyment experience]. We don't need to be the club that's going to make wine appreciation cheaper or get you allocations to this or that - It's not about that. It's about delivering everything at the best possible quality level. Being consistent - if we can be consistent and bring the club to wine lovers around the world, that's the legacy. And that is a great legacy, just doing what you do and doing it well.

 

Just two MW's, and 3 glasses of wine.

 

And then for me personally, right now I’m past the midway stage of my career, probably. I've been working in wine 24 years, and what I've realised is that something I can do now, and I’m really enjoying, is helping other professionals, younger wine lovers and wine students, and getting them to make connections or to understand about maybe the Master of Wine (MW) programme, or maybe the experience that I've had in these various different things, and then seeing people being able to take that knowledge that I’ve accumulated and apply it themselves and use it and go on and do great things themselves, that's really satisfying. It's much more enjoyable than winning an award.

Winning an award is lovely, but if you see that you're really helping other people to go and do great things in the business and keep the industry going and successful, that's a really nice reward.

 

 

There are quite a few people I speak to who ask about the MW (Master of Wine program). Whenever anyone asks me about the MW, it doesn't matter how busy I am - I always say yes. Because I think it's important that people get an inside view, and they really do. For example, one of the things that the MW teaches you actually is communication - being able to express yourself clearly, concisely, and that's how you pass the exam. And once you learn that, you can do it with everything in theory. And if they're curious, they should get to understand about what's possible, and for some people, I explain everything that's going on and they're like, “Okay, now I understand, and the program is not for me and I'm glad I know that”, which is good. On the other hand, there are also people who go, “Okay, I'm going to go for it!” And then they go into it, and they start doing well, and it's never easy, but hopefully they'll get there. So that's something I’ve enjoyed helping with.

Then there’s also connecting people in terms of work, if they say, “Look, I really want to start working in wine” - in fact, I'm meeting someone tomorrow who is just relocating to Singapore, and I haven't met them yet, but I think they've been in law or finance for quite a while and they're interested in getting into the wine industry. So I'm going to meet them and I'll be saying the same things like, what's your business plan - and don't tell me you just love wine - tell me what you want to do and how is it going to beneficial to the industry. How is it going to make money? It's got to be a business. 

 

“…helping other professionals, younger wine lovers and wine students, and getting them to make connections or to understand [more],… and then seeing people being able to take that knowledge that I’ve accumulated and apply it themselves and use it and go on and do great things themselves, that's really satisfying. It's much more enjoyable than winning an award.”

[88 Bamboo] Big cheers to 67 Pall Mall and Richard Hemming MW on the Club’s landmark 10th Anniversary!

Thank you once again for doing this interview with us! We’re really privileged to share our conversation with you with our readers, as we mark this incredible milestone, and as we look towards many more decades to come!

 

 

@CharsiuCharlie