"I wasn’t expecting it to succeed, especially since everyone in the industry warned me that it wouldn’t work. They said, It’s too expensive; you’ll never make it. But, being a family company, we could start small. I thought, I’ll make a barrel. Worst case, we’ll drink it ourselves!"

–Roberto Bava reflecting on his decision to reintroduce a premium category of vermouth under the Cocchi brand.

Cocchi is basically the Beyoncé of the vermouth world. It's the brand that's sparked the revival of artisanal Italian vermouths in the last decade, transforming the category from a dusty relic into the darling of award-winning cocktail bars around the world. Every bartender worth their salt (and a decent tip) would have reached for a bottle of Cocchi at some point as an essential ingredient of modern mixology.

While Cocchi traces its roots back over 130 years, it was mostly thanks to the efforts of Mr Roberto Bava that so many of us could have even heard of the brand today. Roberto began managing Giulio Cocchi Winery at the tender age of 20 and injected it with a shot of passion, slowly creating this iconic brand of aromaticised wine. It was also Roberto who influenced and spearheaded the creation of the Vermouth di Torino appellation.

(Source: tastinglife.it)

Thanks to the good folks at Malt & Wine Asia, I recently had the opportunity to spend an afternoon with Roberto when he was in Singapore. Chatting with Roberto was less of an interview and more like an entertaining coffee chat with the coolest professor on campus. He brims with knowledge but lives by Picasso's motto, "It takes a lifetime to become young," radiating a playful curiosity while embodying the warmth of Italian hospitality.

We talked about unexpected rise of Cocchi (apparently, nobody saw it coming, not even Roberto himself!), to the unthinkable pitch he made to buyers that was surprisingly effective: Cocchi Vermouth is twice as expensive because it’s twice as good. And guess what? People were intrigued, they took notice, and that was how Cocchi began its ascent to global domination.

Roberto also delved into the fascinating connection between modern mixology and Italian Futurism – his insights were a serious revelation that highlighted the cultural significance of Cocchi and Italian drinking culture to the way modern bartenders continue to hone their craft.

So, grab a glass of Cocchi Americano, settle in, and hear the story of how Roberto Bava and his vermouth took the world by storm.

Follow Giulio Cocchi Winery: Official Website | Instagram

"I like to compare it to mozzarella in the ’70s. Back then, chefs used industrial mozzarella, which was of poor quality. Then burrata came along, and they could finally make the best caprese salads, showcasing their skills with the right ingredients. It’s the same with bartenders. When they got hold of Cocchi, their Negronis suddenly became spectacular."

88 Bamboo: You’ve had an incredibly illustrious career spanning numerous milestones and successes, and till today we’re still riding on the wave that you’ve reignited for Vermouth through Cocchi! And it goes without saying that you’re incredibly passionate about Vermouth, and have even pushed for geographical designations for Vermouth, and constantly finding new ways to present and showcase how versatile Vermouth can be, especially with food pairings.

So just to go all the way to the beginning, to the origin of all that passion for Vermouth, what was your first eureka moment with Vermouth, where you really thought this should really be more recognised and enjoyed world wide? To that end, what is it about Vermouth that you think has all the right markings to become this global phenomenon?

Roberto: Should we first explain what Vermouth is? Most people only know it as an ingredient in the cocktails they drink. But actually, Vermouth is an aperitivo, which in Italian means something you drink, usually before lunch. It has one of the longest histories in the world of drinks, because technically, it goes back to the ancient Greeks and Romans. So, combining wine and herbs is nothing new. But first of all, Vermouth is a wine plus herbs—it’s easy to understand. Seventy-five percent of a bottle has to be made with wine. The flavor comes from botanicals, which could be flowers, seeds, barks, roots, etc. Anything that gives flavor—like this—is widely used. Asians do it, Europeans have done it for a long time, and so on.

Once you extract the essence from herbs and botanicals with alcohol, you get a tincture. This tincture, like a perfume, is then added to the wine. You stir it, add some sugar, and voilà—you have Vermouth. Now, technically and historically, true Vermouth started only 300 years ago in Piemonte, Italy. At that time, Piemonte—the northern region of Italy—was not even part of Italy; it was the Kingdom of Piemonte, which we like to call the Kingdom of Vermouth. The capital was first Chambéry and then moved to Torino. This is why the name Vermouth is Vermouth di Torino. When you see "Torino" on the label, it’s a wine-based aperitif made in the region of Piemonte, Italy.

Historically, around 300 years ago, the king of Piemonte—of this state at the time—decided to offer a welcome drink. It used to be a small liqueur, but eventually, since he owned estates with vineyards, they decided to create Vermouth. This is when, historically, Vermouth became a beverage for pleasure. Before that, wine and herbs were used medicinally. For example, certain herbs could reduce fever. But the real drink for pleasure, like we know it today, started only 300 years ago in the royal courts of Piemonte.

From there, many small and large producers emerged, and even more people started to drink it. Remember, the royal court at that time was like society’s social hub, because there was no TV, no radio, and mail was slow. So, the place to see and be seen was the royal court. By the way, for the same reason and through the same channels, chocolate, tea, and coffee spread across Europe. If you look at the historical centers for coffee and chocolate, they coincide with royal courts: Torino, Vienna, Paris, London, even Naples. This is how it spread around Europe.

Now, moving to the question of how we brought Vermouth back. Vermouth has a long history, but in the '70s and '80s, it was a bit abandoned in everyday life. The product had become generic—not super high quality. The wine used was very basic. Even consumers didn’t know how to store it. They would leave the bottle open for months or even years, so the product oxidized, and people stopped liking it. Vermouth declined in the '80s.

But then a few producers, including Cocchi, led a movement to create a new generation of Vermouth by going back to what was traditional, original, and high-quality. To make a premium Vermouth, it had to have the label Torino, because that’s where it originated. And by using that name, we connected it to the same protocols as wine. If you say Bordeaux, it has to come from Bordeaux; you can’t make Bordeaux in Burgundy. Historically, Bordeaux wine came from Bordeaux, and the same is true for Vermouth di Torino.

So, we were able to give it an identity and to revive and rewrite the old laws, which then became official under European Community law. So now, Vermouth di Torino is the iconic, historic name on a quality Vermouth. Cocchi’s role in this was a bit like Don Quixote—like the knight fighting windmills in Spain in the 1600s. We were going against the system because no one believed we could do it.

"What Cocchi was able to do, with the rest of the industry eventually joining us, was to bring this product from being viewed as old to becoming contemporary, and from being considered obsolete to becoming trendy. That’s the biggest leap you can make—from obsolete and forgotten to trendy and modern."

88B: What made you believe you could make it when nobody did?

Roberto: Well, the product itself was old, and the perception was that it was something obsolete—the market was extremely dated. What Cocchi was able to do, with the rest of the industry eventually joining us, was to bring this product from being viewed as old to becoming contemporary, and from being considered obsolete to becoming trendy. That’s the biggest leap you can make—from obsolete and forgotten to trendy and modern.

Usually, you go into an old market with a new product. But here, we were taking a very traditional product and reintroducing it in a way that appealed to a new market, coming from the oldest traditions. This is rare because it’s a huge leap, especially considering that an entire generation had stopped drinking it. Suddenly, our consumers weren’t the grandmothers, but their grandkids. If you don’t have a beard, if you don’t have a tattoo, if you’re not trendy, then you’re out.

My best allies in this were the bartenders—the younger generation at that time—who helped make Vermouth as cool as it is today.

"Suddenly, our consumers weren’t the grandmothers, but their grandkids. If you don’t have a beard, if you don’t have a tattoo, if you’re not trendy, then you’re out."

88B: And what were you seeing that other people were not seeing in vermouth? What did Cocchi see that others didn't see?

Roberto: I saw it as a question of pricing, positioning and quality. The mass producers at that time were using less expensive wines—to put it mildly—and producing huge quantities at very low prices. Naturally, this didn’t lead to high quality. Cocchi did the opposite: we used the best wines, produced small, boutique quantities, and created a premium Vermouth, which unfortunately cost double. But the real challenge was getting people to understand that it was worth paying more for better quality. This was the hardest step. Once they tasted it, they’d say, “Oh, this is good. I like it. Cocchi is good.” And Vermouth went from being seen as a commodity to a hierarchy, with Vermouth di Torino at the top and generic vermouth at the bottom.

(Source: Specialty Brands UK)

Even now, ten years on—which feels like a century in the industry—the trend continues upward. At first, we had about 15 producers on board; now we have 47. The price has tripled, but so has the quality, making it much better but still accessible. In places like New York or London, a good Vermouth might cost around 20–25 euros, pounds, or dollars, which is reasonable considering a single bottle can make 15 cocktails. So, in the end, that’s only 1 euro per cocktail—what are we even talking about?

This was the miracle of Cocchi. Starting two to three years before the crowd, we had the right product at the right time. Bartenders and consumers were looking for quality ingredients, and there was a movement toward better cocktails. Suddenly, when someone brought a great gin, whiskey, or Vermouth, people thought, “Wow, this is a quality brand.”

(Source: Terrachevive)

I like to compare it to mozzarella in the ’70s. Back then, chefs used industrial mozzarella, which was of poor quality. Then burrata came along, and they could finally make the best caprese salads, showcasing their skills with the right ingredients. It’s the same with bartenders. When they got hold of Cocchi, their Negronis suddenly became spectacular. They’re grateful to brands that help them elevate their craft. It’s that simple. And we owe a huge thank-you to bartenders, as they were our best allies in building both the Vermouth di Torino appellation and the Cocchi name.

"Together, we created a law for Vermouth di Torino... They even said, This is the best-drafted law we’ve seen from Italy in recent years, And it was written by the producers themselves. I’m proud of this because it was a democratic process, focused on quality and consumer interests, even if it sometimes went against the industry’s short-term interests."

88B: Was there a key moment in that journey when you began to realise the significance of Cocchi to bartenders?

Roberto: Well, there were a few moments. Our main market today is the United States, partly because of the strong cocktail culture there—many cocktails were born there. I think there were a few moments where we realized, Oh, this is going to work. We’re doing a good job. One of those moments was at one of the first bar shows in New York.

My sales person introduced me to bartenders and they would hear “Cocchi” and immediately say, Thank you, thank you! They’d hug me and say, I have a bottle of your vermouth in my fridge. And this wasn’t just one or two people—there were over thirty people doing this. I thought, What’s happening? I wasn’t used to this reaction. They didn’t know me personally, but they knew the product. That’s when I realized we had created something valuable for the community.

Three generations of the Bava family, including Roberto and his father.

Even today, when I mention Cocchi, people say either Thank you, or I have a bottle of Cocchi in my fridge. Imagine a bartender with limited fridge space—they might have a beer, water, maybe a sparkling wine and a white wine, and then a bottle of Cocchi. If Cocchi is one of only five bottles in their fridge, that means a lot to me. It really shows that our product is helping to make cocktails better. And believe me, when you make a Negroni with Cocchi, it’s very good. It’s very good.

"Establishing a premium category of Vermouth was difficult, but when we introduced the idea that yes, it costs double, but maybe it’s twice as good, something clicked! From that point, people accepted that it was a premium product."

88B: So, during the 120th anniversary of Cocchi in 2011, you decided you’d bring back Vermouth, which was not easy because at the time Vermouth had almost gone missing for quite some time and many folks, unless you were a bartender, didn’t know too much about it, and of course it’s a big and intensive endeavour. Cocchi now has a full lineup of Turin-style Vermouths, where modern Vermouth itself originates.

Take us back to the thought process going into the 120th anniversary of Cocchi, what were your thoughts about bringing back Vermouth, and on your long list of things you had to do to really bring Vermouth back into the spotlight, what did you see as most important to getting Vermouth back in fashion?

Roberto: Let me put it this way: we simply brought back the same product we’d always made. Cocchi is 133 years old today and has been producing Vermouth since the beginning. But I personally discontinued production in the 1980s because the market was extremely challenging. At that time, I was a young graduate from the University of Economics in Torino, and, at 20 years old, I became CEO of Cocchi because my father said, Here’s the company—see what you can do. I never had a typical career path; I started as CEO, and I’m still here!

I took a hard look at the numbers. Vermouth is 75% wine, plus herbs like wormwood, quinine, and flowers, plus sugar, the bottle, and the cork. I realized it wasn’t feasible; everyone else was selling at half the price. Something didn’t add up. I decided we couldn’t compete with the big players, so, in the early ’80s, I stopped production. Cocchi continued with other products, though; we’re one of the oldest sparkling wine producers, and Cocchi Americano and Barolo Chinato are also ours. But Vermouth had a long history for us, so it wasn’t an easy decision.

In 2010, it was our anniversary, and I thought, Okay, let’s bring Vermouth back as a limited-edition product. Maybe the market conditions had improved. That’s how it started again, almost as a nostalgic anniversary project. I wasn’t expecting it to succeed, especially since everyone in the industry warned me that it wouldn’t work. They said, It’s too expensive; you’ll never make it. But, being a family company, we could start small. I thought, I’ll make a barrel. Worst case, we’ll drink it ourselves! Unlike the big companies, which need to produce thousands of liters, we were flexible enough to take this approach. And to our surprise, that first barrel sold immediately. Then came the next, and so on.

"We carved out our niche with the best 50, the best 100, the very top American bars. You won’t find Cocchi in motorway bars or railway stations. Instead, you’ll find it in places where the bartender knows their craft. That’s enough for us, and we’re happy with that."

It wasn’t easy at the beginning, though. But we also realized that while you can win a battle alone, you can’t win the war that way. We needed the whole industry on board. At the time, I was head of the local syndicate, so I had the position to bring people together. They’d never managed to create an industry institute, but in about 15 days, we formed the Institute of Vermouth di Torino, bringing together both big and small producers. It needed to be democratic.

Together, we created a law for Vermouth di Torino. In less than a year, it was approved by the Italian parliament, and two years later, by the European Community. They even said, This is the best law we’ve seen from Italy in recent years. And it was written by the producers themselves. I’m proud of this because it was a democratic process, focused on quality and consumer interests, even if it sometimes went against the industry’s short-term interests.

This was understood and appreciated. I think it was a minor miracle because, in other European products, it was too complicated to achieve this kind of unity. It was complicated for us, too, but somehow, we managed it. And I’m very proud of that.

88B: It’s interesting you mentioned that nobody expected Cocchi to be successful when first reintroduced to the market by you. Looking back, what were the most key elements that has led to Cocchi’s success?

Roberto: Remember, we already had a strong name and a good reputation, thanks to Cocchi Americano, our aperitif, and Barolo Chinato. This helped a lot.

I like to tell this story of my experience pitching Cocchi Vermouth for the first time: Torino, the former capital of Italy, has a café culture—these are elegant cafés, like in Vienna or Paris, that look like churches. In the first few years, I’d go to these cafés in Torino and say, Hello, I’m Roberto Bava, producer of Barolo Chinato. I’d introduce our Vermouth, and they’d taste it and agree it was good. But then they’d say, This costs double what the famous brand costs. They’d insist they could buy the other brand at half the price from a wholesaler.

Then I’d go to the second bar and repeat, Hello, I’m Roberto Bava, producer of Barolo Chinato… and once again they raised the same concern about the price.

So you know what? By the third café, I decided to change my approach and lean into it. I walked in and said, Hello, I’m Roberto Bava, producer of Barolo Chinato, and my Vermouth costs double. At that moment, we created a premium concept. They knew it cost double. If we had to compete on price alone, we’d never win.

The challenge was creating that “pyramid.” Establishing a premium category of Vermouth was difficult, but when we introduced the idea that yes, it costs double, but maybe it’s twice as good , something clicked!. From that point, people accepted that it was a premium product. We didn’t expect to sell millions of bottles—we just sold the barrels we had made to start with. That was the beginning, when I said, It costs double, and it’s double as good. That set us on the right path.

Even today, we don’t aim for high volumes. You won’t find us in duty-free shops or in every store; we sell to bartenders and specialized shops. We can’t compete with the large international companies, and I respect them a lot—we couldn’t have revived the market without them. We carved out our niche with the best 50, the best 100, the very top American bars. You won’t find Cocchi in motorway bars or railway stations. Instead, you’ll find it in places where the bartender knows their craft. That’s enough for us, and we’re happy with that.

"The great thing is, this is a game for anyone to partake. Gather some friends, find three bottles [of Cocchi], and set out a variety of things to taste for a nice evening. You may end up a little tipsy, but you’ll likely discover your favorite vermouth style and a food pairing that really clicks for you."

88B: Oh yes, a good number of folks would have interacted with the Cocchi brand even before Vermouths, as Cocchi already for a long time had a very popular Barolo Chinato and Americano (which is of course not the coffee!). These two expressions, whilst not technically Vermouth di Torino, are of course still aromaticised wines.

We also know that Cocchi has a very lovely founding story of having been started by Giulio Cocchi, who was a pastry chef who had moved to Asti, which most folks would know for its Moscato wines, and there he not only fell in love with the daughter of a bar owner whose bar is today called Bar Cocchi, but that he learnt to produce aromaticised wines which became the Barolo Chinato and Americano.

Could you share with us some fun facts about the Cocchi story that most folks wouldn’t know of?

Roberto: First of all, I’m really impressed by your research—you really know the story! Giulio Cocchi’s story is like a romance. He was originally a bartender in Florence, at a bar called Scudieri, which is still open near the city gates today. He had plans to go to Torino to make his own Vermouth and sparkling wines. But on his way, he got off the train in Asti by mistake—it was nighttime, and he may have even lost his suitcase. He met a man at the station who, seeing this young guy stranded, invited him to stay at his place. That man happened to be the owner of the main bar in town, and, long story short, Giulio married his daughter! That bar is still there and is called Bar Cocchi to this day.

Giulio was a visionary. We’re publishing a book next year about him, and we’ve uncovered so much. By the early 1900s, he had opened 13 bars! Some of them were incredibly far away—one in Caracas, Venezuela, and another in Ethiopia. He was way ahead of his time; it’s like if I were to open a bar on the moon! His model was ingenious—he’d produce 5,000 liters (about 6,000 bottles) and ship it in barrels to his own bars, where they would rebottle and make cocktails. This was a brilliant early example of franchising.

Another fun fact: Giulio was one of the first to sponsor soccer teams! He sponsored not one but two teams—one called Cocchi Americano and the other Barolo Chinato. When they played against each other, the announcer had to say, “Cocchi Americano... Barolo Chinato...” over and over. It was 90 minutes of free advertising—absolute genius!

Giulio didn’t just focus on Vermouth. Asti is the center of sparkling wine production in Italy, and he was an early adopter, making bottle-fermented sparkling wines with Moscato, and later with Chardonnay and Pinot Noir. Even today, Cocchi is known for high-quality sparkling wines, and we’ve won top awards like the Tre Bicchieri, top scores from Wine Enthusiast and Wine Spectator.

We also have other connections to local traditions. For instance, Asti has held an annual horse races since 1472, even before Columbus discovered the Americas! It’s similar to the famous Palio di Siena horse race but even older. Giulio sponsored a horse in the 1930s, and we still support the same borough with the colors of green and red.

88B: With the aromaticised wines covered, let’s talk about the sparkling wines; and also Alta Lunga, another project you’ve been very passionate about. Whilst Vermouth had almost went quiet for a bit until you brought it back, sparkling wines are something that alot more people are familiar with and also a very competitive market. What’s Cocchi’s strategy to making its sparkling wines – maybe perhaps more specifically Alta Lunga – be the sparkling wine that consumers reach out for?

How then do you see Cocchi, or perhaps specifically its Vermouth and Sparkling Wines, evolve with time and keep building upon that popularity that it enjoys? Is there a particular effort within Cocchi to reach out to younger audiences and engage with them with Vermouth and Sparkling Wines?

Roberto: Alta Langa began as a way to create a designation of sorts for dry sparkling wines in the Piemonte region, similar to how we established protocols for Vermouth di Torino. Asti has always been linked to Moscato, but for dry sparkling wines, there was no specific appellation. Without an appellation, there’s no clear identity—similar to how Champagne is different from any other sparkling wine. We wanted Alta Langa to be unique.

The name "Alta Langa" refers to the high hills of the Langhe region, famous for wines like Barolo and Barbaresco. These vineyards sit higher, at elevations of 400–800 meters, compared to Barolo’s typical 250–350 meters. These areas, where only goats used to roam, were poor because while Barolo has expensive land, just beyond its borders, land is almost worthless.

We sought higher altitudes where temperatures are cooler, with greater day-to-night climate differences, which is ideal for quality grape-growing. The project was also sociological. By helping people earn a living in these poorer areas, we prevented depopulation, preserved the land, and improved the local economy. We encouraged farmers to plant Chardonnay and Pinot Noir according to strict quality guidelines, and Cocchi committed to buying their grapes for 20 years at a premium. This transformed the area—once known for goat cheese and hazelnuts—into a high-quality wine-growing region. After 20 years, Cocchi and six other pioneers have expanded the appellation to include 150 producers. The value of the land has doubled. It will never be like Singapore, but at least people no longer have to leave. The region is breathtaking, but it was poor, so this project has brought new life.

Alta Langa has the strictest quality protocols in Europe, even more so than Champagne. For instance, Alta Langa must be aged at least 30 months on the lees (Champagne typically requires 12-18 months, Franciacorta 24 months). Cocchi doubles this, aging our bottles for 60 months before they’re ready for a celebration. Every Alta Langa is vintage, with no non-vintage blends allowed, and must come from specific vineyards within the designated area, so there’s no sudden increase in production that could dilute quality.

While it’s priced below Champagne, we believe Alta Langa rivals or even exceeds Champagne of a similar age and quality. It will always cost more than Prosecco, which is fermented for three weeks, compared to our 60 months—this is an entirely different product. Alta Langa is meant for gourmet occasions—a great pairing for Peking duck or foie gras, with Cocchi as the ideal choice. Production will likely stabilize at around six million bottles—modest in volume but focused on high quality.

"The concept of pairing snacks like peanuts with cocktails—that’s from the Futurists! Serving a drink in an ice glass? That was a Futurist invention. Even the act of spraying a mist on your cocktail, which you often see bartenders do – that is 100% a Futurist invention."

88B: On the topic of Peking Duck, let’s get into one of your most preferred means of demonstrating Vermouth’s versatility, and is also something very popular in Asia - and that’s food pairings! You’ve used food pairings as a means to not just show what Vermouth can do, but also a canvas upon which you can introduce more people to Vermouth. And you’ve done your food pairings in some very innovative ways such as making a sorbet with your sparkling wines, and also more classically pairing Vermouth with chocolate—all of which goes beyond the typical Martini!

Now because we’re in Asia, I have to ask you if you’ve considered pairing Cocchi’s Vermouth with Asian flavours?

Roberto: With Cocchi’s range of aromatized wines, including three different Vermouths, you can think of it like a Pantone color palette. Each one has distinct, authentic flavors, and together they cover a range of notes that can match well with other foods. Just as you’d have a range from white chocolate to very dark chocolate, Cocchi’s Vermouths offer a similar spectrum for pairing. We do some wonderful pairings with chocolate. We’ve done similar pairings with cheese as well, and even partner with the Consorzio del Parmigiano Reggiano, pairing different ages of Parmigiano with our Vermouths, almost like a wine tasting. It’s all about finding harmony with flavors like umami, saltiness, or richness. It’s especially easy to do so for desserts because, like I said, we have a Pantone color palette of flavours.

As for Asian flavors, I see a lot of exciting possibilities. With the range of flavors we offer, there’s always something that will work with different cuisines. I’ve tried some pairings with Chinese, Vietnamese, and Indian dishes—one Vermouth might work beautifully with a curry, another with pandan, and I’ve even paired Cocchi with lychee, which was fantastic.

The goal isn’t just to sell more but to explore flavors and create pleasure. When you find a pairing where 1 + 1 equals 3, that’s synergy! If you pair a great chocolate with a great vermouth, they could be twice as good when paired together. Of course, if it doesn’t enhance the experience, if 1 + 1 isn’t 3, don’t waste time. Just drink it neat! It’s an exciting bit of research to make your life a bit more enjoyable.

88B: Do you have any favourite pairings?

Roberto: There are so many possibilities. We haven’t even touched on mixology—there’s a lot you can do with spritzes. For example, with all the different sodas out there—Fever Tree, Franklin & Sons, Schweppes—you could create six or seven different spritzes with Cocchi’s vermouths.

In terms of food pairings, one of my favorites for sure is gianduja chocolate - the classic hazelnut chocolate - with Cocchi’s Vermouth di Torino. It’s perfect. Another great pairing is 36-month aged Parmigiano-Reggiano with Vermouth di Torino as well.

Then when I visit Japan, there’s yuzu with Cocchi Americano. The acidity and freshness of yuzu are a beautiful match, especially because the Americano already has a citrus element from bitter orange peels. It just makes sense—it’s a natural combination.

The great thing is, this is a game for anyone to partake. Gather some friends, find three bottles, and set out a variety of things to taste for a nice evening. You may end up a little tipsy, but you’ll likely discover your favorite vermouth style and a food pairing that really clicks for you.

"Just like in art, where Picasso had to master traditional forms before breaking them, a bartender should perfect a Negroni or a Manhattan before attempting to break the rules. If you don’t know the fundamentals, you have no rules to break."

88B: Going beyond food pairings, maybe you could give some advice to bartenders. What more do you think can be done by bars to promote vermouth?

Roberto: I love mentioning Singapore as a great case study—what’s been achieved here is amazing – how you made the city a destination for cocktails, with one of the world’s best bartending communities. Honestly, there’s nothing I can personally teach local bartenders; they’re already doing incredible work.

That said, with Singapore’s tropical climate, vermouth and the whole Cocchi range is perfect for drinking here. In warm weather, people are often drawn to drinks that are lower in alcohol, lighter, and more refreshing. Cocchi fits this perfectly. The climate and the cuisine of tropical places which often lean towards more salads and fruits, natural flavors, make lighter drinks like Cocchi vermouth ideal.

For instance, Cocchi Rosa with grapefruit soda, lots of ice, and a lemon zest garnish is a fantastic option. It’s wine-based and has all the complexity of herbs and botanicals. With soda, it’s around 7–8% ABV, so it’s lower in alcohol than a glass of Chardonnay but it also broadens the flavours.

If you’re sitting by the pool, you won’t usually drink a neat glass of whiskey. Imagine a glass full of crushed ice, like a cobbler, with Cocchi Americano poured over it—it’s phenomenal because the ice melts slowly, keeping it cold and refreshing, and the vermouth brings bitterness, slight sweetness, and a touch of acidity. In a swimming pool or in a tropical garden setting, that’s exactly what you want, rather than a whiskey or a heavy wine like Barolo (and I say this as a Barolo producer!). Cocchi brings that light, bright experience that’s ideal for a tropical garden or poolside. I encourage folks to explore lower-ABV cocktails that don’t compromise on flavor.

88B: Now, I’d love to talk about art. It’s no secret that you’re a big fan of Italian Futurism - you’re known for collecting Futurist memorabilia and even wrote a book on the Art style - and we must also complement you on Cocchi’s aesthetic, we really love it! What about Italian Futurism resonates so deeply with you? This was also of course the time when Cocchi was fast rising with its Vermouths - what do you think is the spirit conveyed by the art style that would birth Cocchi and is embodied by Cocchi?

Roberto: Those years, the 1920s and ’30s, are often overlooked, partly because of the political situation back then. While we’ve distanced ourselves from those politics, the art and aesthetic of that period remain something precious that we want to preserve. Futurism was revolutionary in every aspect of art—music, painting, architecture. It changed everything, and that creative evolution extended even into cocktails.

People often think of cocktails as something born in America or England, with only a few classic Italian drinks like the Negroni or Americano. But actually, during the Futurist era, Futurist artists invented 19 original cocktails, all made with Italian ingredients, as they didn’t have access to foreign spirits like whiskey or rum. These were not just drinks; they were masterpieces. Imagine an architect designing a cocktail with a unique aesthetic vision. Futurists were the first to introduce ideas we take for granted in bars today. For instance, the concept of pairing snacks like peanuts with cocktails—that’s from the Futurists! Serving a drink in an ice glass? That was a Futurist invention. Even the act of spraying a mist on your cocktail, which you often see bartenders do – that is 100% a Futurist invention, originated with them some 80 years ago. They also made music to accompany cocktails—that’s sensory marketing from the 1920s!

This part of history was so compelling that we felt the need to preserve it. This is why Cocchi Americano’s label features a rooster, designed in Futurist style, with a striped, bold aesthetic. We wanted to save as much of this legacy as possible, so we gathered everything available and created a “yellow book” which we call the Futurist Mixology Book. It’s a full collection of the official Futurist cocktails, created by artists of the time. This was the Italian approach to cocktails—vermouth served neat, with just ice and a lemon zest.

Futurist cocktails weren’t simply classified by “pre-dinner” (apéritifs) or “after-dinner” (digestifs). They had cocktails for very specific purposes: for instance, “Presto a Letto” (Soon to Bed) for winding down, or Inventina for sparking new ideas. There’s a cocktail to set the mood for lovemaking. Their philosophy was all about dynamism, so their cocktails had to be tactile. They’d mix textures in the mouth—some drinks were silky, others more rough or velvety. Futurists were also obsessed with movement, so cocktails would change color or shift in some way, which feels incredibly contemporary. It's incredible - believe me, it's incredible.

We’ve also worked to reconnect with the brands that were part of this era of Futurism—like Campari, Strega, Luxardo—and we’ve teamed up with them to teach others about this unique chapter of cocktail history. This isn’t just Cocchi’s story; it’s a collective legacy that needs to be shared.

88B: Which of your Futurist memorabilia is most treasured by you? Tell us the story behind how you came to acquire it and what it means to you!

Roberto: I’m not a collezionista—I came to it too late, and the prices have become too high. But there is one piece my brother keeps as a treasure: something called a Lito-Latta, which is a book made entirely of metal. Instead of paper, the pages are metal, making it incredibly rare. Futurists incorporate sound into their art, so this book actually makes noise when you open it, adding a tactile and auditory element. This sensory aspect was fundamental to Futurism—they wanted people to engage all their senses, including touch, smell, and sound, even while drinking.

It amazes me how these ideas emerged from the early 20th century, such a traditional era. These artists were truly daring, thinking far outside the box, which I believe is in our genetic makeup to be a little out of the box. Inspired by these concepts, we created a neo-Futurist mixology manifesto , which provides some guiding principles but also invites people to experiment and create. In Futurist mixology, you’re free to invent new cocktails beyond the original 19, as long as you follow the rules in the manifesto. For example, one rule is that you don’t use a jigger. The idea was that if you rely on a jigger, even your grandmother could do it! A Futurist cocktail should be a unique creation, like a painting, with room for variation and artistry. They believed cocktails should be dynamic, or plastico, and inspire all the senses.

You earlier asked me for advice to bartenders today, and I’d say open your mind and experiment, but don’t overlook the classics. Just like in art, where Picasso had to master traditional forms before breaking them, a bartender should perfect a Negroni or a Manhattan before attempting to “break the rules.” If you don’t know the fundamentals, you have no rules to break.

I’m Italian and the Italian philosophy, especially in cuisine, is all about simplicity and quality. Go back to basics with fewer ingredients but of the highest quality. For instance, cook some rice with Cannaroli rice, which is the best kind of rice, and just add a few drops of Tuscan extra virgin olive oil. The same goes for cocktails. A Negroni has only three ingredients, but use the best bitters, the best vermouth, and a gin you love – there you are. If you want to innovate, go ahead, but please, give me a Negroni.

Grapes and wine, of course; did you know Piemonte has around 200 grape varietals, as many as all of France? For beef, we have cattle called Fassona Piemontese, a local breed that’s fantastic for raw dishes. And don’t miss the mushrooms and of course liqueurs—they’re part of Piemonte’s long history.

When it comes to cheese, I love Parmigiano but we’ve got Gorgonzola and Castelmagno, the “Rolls Royce of cheese.” Just a piece of cheese with a glass of sparkling Alta Langa, and you’re in nirvana! And lastly, chocolate. Try gianduja from a Venchi shop—hazelnut chocolate paired with vermouth or Cocchi Americano, and you’ll be in Nirvana- you’ll go bananas with it!

88B: This has been a great pleasure Roberto! We really appreciate you sharing your time and passion with us!

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